Site Activity
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Aaron Kessler posted an update: 9 hours, 12 minutes ago · View
How we run from reality.
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Dunvegan Highlander posted an update in the group Bulletin Board: 20 hours, 52 minutes ago · updated 9 hours, 17 minutes ago · View
Dallas Christian Filmmakers
Presents
Living The Vision
– A Filmmaking Seminar –
September 10-11, 2010
Friday, 7-9pm
Saturday, 9am – 8pm (Lunch and Dinner Breaks Included)
First Baptist Church Bryan – 3100 Cambridge Drive, Bryan, TX 77802If you are. . .
A Christian filmmaker
Interested in or have a desire to support Christian films
Parents who care about what movies your children watch and want tools for deciding which films you want them to view
Then this seminar is for you!Join us Friday evening as we launch the weekend with essential and encouraging sessions while laying the groundwork for the excitement to come the following day.
Saturday will be packed with highly relevant and practical information including:
Hands-on activities
Breakout sessions
Live panel movie analysis by seminar speakersRegister Soon!
$25 per person
$35 for two in a family
Additional family members after the first two registered attendees come free
Prepay and get a $5 discount!
To register, contact local coordinator Stacie Jones at stacie@morningstarproductions.net or 979.571.1114 for more info
Send check to 340 Greenleaf, Bryan TX 77808
Make checks payable to Stacie JonesPossible Session Topics Include:
¬ Plugs, Pitches, Tags and Other Nuts and Bolts—The Short Descriptions That Will Convince the World They Want to See Your Movie
¬ Lighting, Composition, and Getting the Look that Tells Your Story
¬ 3-Part Acting Workshop
¬ Editing Workshop: Seeing It Like You Saw It
¬ Phase One Producing—The Step You Didn’t Know You’d Want to Love
¬ Movie Analysis and Film Ratings: Tools of Discernment for Making Wise Decisions about Filmmaking and Film Viewing
¬ Working on a Shoestring Budget: Keeping it Professionally Successful and Crazily Creative
¬ And More!Note from DH: This is this weekend…I didn’t find out until a few days ago, but I should have posted it immediately. It would be awesome, though, if some of you Austinites would swing over to Brian for the weekend. I’m gonna be there on Saturday, only. So if anyone can make it, I look forward to seeing you there! If not…I’ll hang out all by myself.
me bro will be there, I would be there but I will be in Dallas with Brady Clayton
What are y’all doing?
I’m going to be at a Civil War reenactment
It’ll be an awesome film workshop. I personally know the coordinators of the class and they’re pretty cool. Unfortunately that’s also during the exact same 2 days as the ARC Introduction to Speech and Debate Workshop in Austin.
Coolio.
That’s too bad…would be awesome to have some of y’all guys there.
Can you come to Nebraska sometime? Plleeeeaaaaseee?????
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Aaron Kessler likes Katie Riely‘s activity 9 hours, 18 minutes ago · View
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Dunvegan Highlander posted an update in the group Filmmaker’s Circle: 10 hours, 42 minutes ago · updated 9 hours, 18 minutes ago · View
Yes: it has been done; it can be done again.
I got to watch Pendragon at last year’s San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival. Have you seen it yet?
What has been done, what can be done again, and who made this?
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Madelaine Clay posted an update in the group Total Randomness: 1 day, 14 hours ago · updated 9 hours, 49 minutes ago · View
It’s really funny when some random neighborhood dog starts to chase after our moving car.
But what’s really funny is when we put the car in reverse and start chasing the dog. That’s epic.
There must be a story behind this…
LOL!
LOL!!
We have a dog who considers it his personal duty to chase any automobile 1/4 mile down our road….he is an extremely annoying ding-dong… unfortunately, he has most of this family wrapped around his paw….
Awesome.
*Like*
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Michael Latham posted an update: 11 hours, 4 minutes ago · View
Don’t know about y’all….but I had a pretty awesome Labor Day.
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Joseph Clarkson posted an update: 2 days, 7 hours ago · updated 11 hours, 17 minutes ago · View
So could I get a list of people and how many guns they have that are coming to the airsoft war on the third Saturday this month?
so could you people say your coming?
You can count me for the 18th of September.
I have no guns.
I might be able to provide transportation for those coming from the Cedar Park area.
OK Cool!
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Grace Einkauf wrote a new blog post: Soliloquize: the result of activities in early January 11 hours, 37 minutes ago · View
i’m whelmed over by this undertow, undercurrent. Call it like it is… this gravitated water. Or maybe i should say blasting. There’s a waterhose in our yard the same. And it shabooshes the grass and i know the grass feels like me. Both importuned….be back later. It would be really nice if i could find [...]
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Boredom is the mother of invention.
Or sleep… lol
And I would contend that boredom is often the mother of disastrous invention.
It sure can be. Remember the old saying about idleness…
Hohoho…LOL!
Haha! That is true!
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Dunvegan Highlander commented on the blog post The Chronicles of Narnia Debate: Negative Summary 11 hours, 42 minutes ago · View
But my points have been neglected. 1. Jesus’ stories were more like ANALOGIES than ALLEGORIES. He made direct comparisons, saying “this is like, for instance…” 2. The character of God is not CORRUPTED 3. God was not REPLACED as if he were inadequate. Aslan is a dubious personage. And he is propagator and initiator of [...]
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Grace Einkauf commented on the blog post The Chronicles of Narnia Debate: Negative Summary 11 hours, 56 minutes ago · updated 11 hours, 53 minutes ago · View
(I read the debate, lest you think I blocked it out of my sight
Just haven’t commented ’til now.) As far as the allegories question, I must side with Brian. There are so many examples in the Bible, it seems rather obvious. The example I chose is from Matthew 21. 33 “Listen to another [...]
forgot to mention @brianfactor
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Dunvegan Highlander posted an update in the group The Great Literature Discussions: 1 month ago · updated 12 hours, 15 minutes ago · View
So, Aslan is the creator of all the Greek deities, as well as Celtic mythological characters. He is also the creator of Magic. Now, if Aslan is the Narnian image of our God-which is what Lewis implies, there seems to be a bit of a problem. Did our God create the Greek deities?
A few questions:
Question 1. Were/are the Greek deities real?
I strongly believe that they did. The Scriptures speak of giants and half-humans in the past. The Greeks believed that the Greek people have become smaller as time has progressed.
Their legendary heroes were semi-gods, and giants.Now, I believe that if the American Indians thought that the white men, though their own size, were gods, why would a godless people not think the same of a race of giants living on a mountain somewhere in Europe or Asia Minor?
Now, some people could stump me on that discussion. But anyway…Question 2: If they were real, where did they come from?
So, we’ve said that the Greek deities were giants. Where did these giants come from?
Well, the Scriptures speak of human/demon relationships, the results of which were creatures like Goliath.Question 3: So, if they were real, and semi-human giants, how far back can we trace their roots?
Well, we are also told the before the creation of earth, there was a great rebellion in the Heavenlies, lead by Lucifer, the Angel of Light (I find it interesting that Lucy is the first Pevensie to enter Narnia. That’s beside the point, however.) Lucifer had supporting him one-third of the angels, all of which were cast from Heaven.Question 4: So, didn’t God create all the angels?
Yes, he did. So, we’re nearing an answer. So if God made the angels, did he not make the Greek Deities? Hmmm…now we could spring off into some theological discussions regarding the sovereignty of God, and the permissive will of God…
But I believe that he did not create the Giants. By his power and the rules of the nature he created, the birth of these deities was made possible.
But he did not call them into being the way he did man and animals.But we now run into a serious problem:
Aslan is the friend of pagan deities, and mythological characters. He created astrologers, magicians, half-humans….Our God sent his people to destroy Aslan’s creations…
Last Question: So who is Aslan?
Reply 1: I agree
Reply 2: I agree
Reply 3: I agree
Reply 4: This is such a massively complex question…..ouch! But yes, I agree that he didn’t call them to being- but he did intend they should exist.Ok, my only real problem is with your closing statement:
1. Astrologers
In the context that they were included in Narnia, the stars were literally living beings- not god’s to worship,
but they reflected the plans of the Emperor Beyond the Sea…
(Side- note: Abraham from the Bible was an astrologer )2. ”Aslan is the friend of pagan deities, and mythological characters”
True- but they weren’t ”Pagan deities and mythological characters” in narnia.
Their existence have no bearing on what they may or may not represent in the real world- he used them as weird & interesting characters, with no direct reference (in the books) to background or meaning. (Ok, baccus & the river ”gods” was pushing it … I’ll give you that ) Last question: ”So who is Aslan?”
Ouch.
You make a lot of very good points- I really wish C.S Lewis was alive today, so we could confront him with these questions/concerns.I suppose the real question is, if they are taken as pure fiction- can a mature teen simply understand the series’ shortcomings, enjoy the story- and appreciate the character lessons; and the many *very* good illustrations of Biblical situations/principles/stories?
BTW, another side note:
You mentioned ”Half-human”.
Has anyone ever thought about the possibile technological advancements during the first 2000 years before the flood?
When I see centaurs etc, I think ”Pre-flood, unprincipled biological engineering”
Thoughts?I cannot believe what I just did-I took about thirty minutes to write a response-and the cleared it all. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I’ll see if I can’t say it in a nutshell.Okay, about astrologers:
I really had to think hard about Abraham… Good point. However, astrology of any kind was forbidden in the covenant with God’s people. (Deut 18:10-11) Abraham came before that covenant. Here’s a Christian site on those verses, (featuring doom music embedded on the webpage, so as you won’t be surprised. )
http://fillthevoid.org/Children/TheBattle/ForbiddenPractices/WhatisaForbiddenPractice.html
Remember Dr. Cornelius? He was a diviner-a ”good guy”, and the centaurs were astrologers- ”observers of the times”.Well, to use pagan deities in a book, and call them good is like unto putting a rotten egg into batter and saying it is good. No matter what you say, the origins will stay. You can call it a black-yolk egg, but that will not change what it really is. I think I’ll call it the Rule of Actuals.
I would like to meet C.S. Lewis-we’re a lot alike.
Well, I don’t know, mon ami. Are you familiar with the lust for the occult? Some people aren’t as vulnerable as others. I am one of the vulnerable ones-that’s one thing that makes this a dangerous fight for me to fight. But it also helps me, because it gives me an understanding of the lust that Lewis experienced. The fact is, that there are many like me. But not all of them know the danger. Many will read it, and before they know it, teenager or adult, may find themselves dabbling in the occult-like I once did. No kidding. It’s very easy. And the movies don’t helo the situation.
An interesting thought about the centaurs-that’s a possibility. (see my responce to Emma)
Now, below is a comment I made on Buzz-probably the most compact argument I’ve ever made against Narnia.
I am ashamed of the fact that when I wrote this that the line from Master and Commander became very true for me:
”…and chasing this larger, faster ship with its long guns is beginning to smack of pride.”
The fact is that my kind are not very common. When I wrote this, I was rather angry, and overcome with the feeling of ”the few against the many,” for I had just witnessed a Pro-Narnian lambasting one of my brothers, and using ad-homonyms and straw men-I lashed back as hard as I could. I am a choleric. When I come up against a challenge, my pride increases. A challenge-odds, fuel my fire. Anyway, with no further ado…
About the stars: the fact is that no man will ever have an original thought. Narnia was a world that was created by Lewis, using what the pagans of the past believed to be true. They believed that OUR stars were more than just stars”Nate Harris – Miss _____, a couple verses:
”2 Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”Why do we dare try to rewrite the story of our Lord’s passion???
”Isa 46:5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?”
A powerful question, put from Cobblestone Ministries:
”How naive of Christians to assume for one minute that the bible needs improvement with so-called ”allegorical tales” contrived in their vain imaginations!
Should we rewrite God’s words using our own? Is that not what it truly boils
down to? Improving the Gospel story? You say, ”Now wait a minute…I don’t think that way at all…” It is interesting that Christians are calling the Narnia movie a great witnessing tool that is ”not so offensive” to their unsaved friends. What ever happened to opening up the bible with your friend and presenting them the pure Gospel message straight out of God’s Word? Oh, you say it is old fashioned? You say it is ”archaic”. Yet Jesus said, ”If a man love me, he will keep my words…” John 12:48 says, ”He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall
judge him in the last day.” Notice it is not C.S. Lewis’ words that you need
to believe.How can we possibly retell the Gospel message by using mythological creatures and fantasy? Does the Bible need improvement? The Bible is God’s Holy Word. He gave us the Bible to learn. We don’t need a retelling of the Gospel. The beautiful story of the Gospel needs no improvement, folks. To say that we need fiction to show us the way, means that the bible needs improvement with our own words in our own feeble understanding…which is completely unacceptable if you love Jesus and keep His Word.”
Also, I hear that you discredited the quote about Lewis’ lust for the occult. I had to cut is as I did for the sake of staying under the NCFCA time limit. Here is the whole thing, all the more powerful for its entirety:
“And that started in me something with which, on and off, I have had plenty of trouble since–the desire for the preternatural, simply as such, the passion for the Occult. Not everyone has this disease; those who have will know what I mean. I once tried to describe it in a novel. It is a spiritual lust; and like the lust of the body it has the fatal power of making everything else in the world seem uninteresting while it lasts.” (“Surprised by Joy,” Harcourt Brace, 1955, pages 58-60.)”
Okay, before I answer any of this, may I just say: this is so bizarre you would ask this because my mom and I have been debating this exact same subject for the past week or so. So, now, anyway… #1- Agree- somewhat. I have an extremely complicated belief about this, but, in short it is thus: it says in the Bible that by believing, we can make what we are believing so. So I believe that the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc believed in their gods to a certain point that they did, in fact, ’become’ real. What I’ve noticed is that their head gods are never truly perfect; they always have a truly evil diety, but never one that is truly perfect. This has led me to believe that, in a manner of speaking, their ’gods’ are fallen angels. Hopefully that doesn’t make me sound crazy, or radical, or offensive. It’s really hard to explain. #2- see above, really. They had to have come from somewhere pre ordained by God. Be it heaven or hell. Generally agree with you, however. #3- agree. Or it could also come from before the flood, when sons of God mixed with men. #4- agree. God created the angels, even the ones that fell with Lucifer, but it was Lucifer that morphed them into demons. He ’created’ a new side of them, just like humans have their Holy Spirit and their sinful nature. Does that make sense?
Aslan is not God. He is not a god either. He is a fictional character designed to simplify, as well as possible, what man has tried and tried to understand for thousands of years: God. Like anything created by a man, Aslan will have things that don’t add up. That’s it.
@ Nathanial Crawford: YES! I completely agree with you about the centaurs. I believe that there were even dragons at one point after the flood (if you look in Job, there are creatures known as Behemoth and Leviathan). Cool point.
Yes, exactly. Offensive?
That’s basically what I was trying to say…but I didn’t really think of the fact that they may have actually been angels, not just semi-men. Hmmmm…good point. Very good point. The Iliad speaks of Apollo and other gods appearing in the forms of men. You’re theory is probably more likely. OH! Yes. So Achilles and Patroclos, etc, were the nephilim. That makes even more sense.Exactly. I personally believe that Satan is the creator of magic and witchcraft as well. The Lord has supernatural power-perfect, incorruptible, irresistible power-not magic. Funny thing is, the Lord knows how to work logically, too. That is one of the great beauties of our salvation is the LOGICAL way that he worked our salvation out.
Anyway, the point being, that Satan tries to counterfeit the Lord’s power. ”Ha Satan”, the deceiver. He counterfeits the Lord’s work, and tries it to his advantage. Not to say that magic is his only tool, but one of them.Actually, Emma, recall, if you would, the end of ”The Voyage of the Dawn Treader”. That kinda stunned me. If Aslan is not supposed to be God, or a god, then who is he in the real world? It’d be nice if he were Barak Obama, and then everyone would be against him…. TEHE!
Sounds like we finally disagree on something, Emma.
That is, something we can see without different national histories. Aye, @nathanaelc, that was a good point. Hehe. I am also a believer in dragons, elves, dwarves, fairies, AND MOST OF ALL, BLACK RIDERS!!! Those things are totally real, and completely creepy.
@pelayo can back me up. You’ll have to forgive me- the last time I read The Voyage of the Dawn Treader was roughly five years ago during a huge move and major family health problems, so the end of the VoTD escapes me…actually, I can’t even remember if I actually read it…sorry. I’d rather not answer then answer and have no idea what i’m saying. Lol, I was kinda getting worried there. It’s not often that I come across someone I agree with quite a lot.
Wow, the part about the ’demigods’ being the nephilim didn’t even occur to me when I said that! O.o Well, I guess my theory is stronger then I thought it was. I agree- particularly on the witchcraft part.
Forgive you??? NEVER! Jk. LOL! No problem.
You ought to go back and re-read it. I’ll quote the part I’m referring to presently.LOL!
Hehe! I think we kinda share a theory here. Have you ever heard of Steve Quayle?
EH? DO YOU ARGEE ABOUT THE WITCHCRAFT PART??? Now, then.
Lol! Yeah, I probably should, if I can dig up my mega-copy from the depths of my poor room.
No, I haven’t heard of Steve Quayle. Who is he?
Yeah, I agree about the witchcraft part. It’s not…right. It certainly doesn’t spring from God. I mean, I’ve met people who are wiccan before, and it would appear that they just don’t quite get the concept of God and Christianity. Sad. LOL! Mega-copy-hahaha!
Hmmm…he’s an ancient history ”nut”, if you will. Done a lot of research on giants. He’s a strong Christian, and just finished a book called ”Longwalkers”, inspired by a recent military encounter with a giant in the Middle East-a live giant.
I had a wiccan ”friend ” once, an elderly man, who was a former black witch, turned white witch, and professing Christian…scary. Aye, ’tis sad; and a great danger as well.Here’s his website:
http://www.stevequayle.com/Cool! I’m just checking out Steve Quayle’s website now…it looks really neat. I never really thought much about the idea of giants, but this has really got me thinking. Thanks for sharing it.
Wow, that’s…sad, in a scary way. I personally think you can’t be something like a wiccan and also be a Christian. It’s like an oxymoron gone wild.
Aye, he’s kinda nuts about them…
Sure! Same here. No kidding.
I just spent an hour analyzing Steve Quayle’s stuff and have come to the educated conclusion that he’s just another conspiracy theory hoaxer like the million others on line, Christian or not.
His ’facts’ are all either assertions, twisted truths, or other conspiracy theories (see the ancient nukes theory, and ancient astronauts theory which he cites).
This stuff is fun to read, but it’s 99% balderdash.
Whoa, Alex, whoa.
Maybe I am too…okay, I’d best not say that. LOL!What were you going to say?
\Btw I love reading this stuff too. It makes good inspiration for epic sci-fi and fantasy books/.
LOL! You crack me up.
You’ve really made some worthy comments, mon ami. I will respond soon-I’ve got to go for now, though.
I’m looking forward to it. I apologize for any inflammatory remarks I may have made or will make.
HAHAHAHAHA! Okay, so long as we refrain from ad-homonyms and straw men, and stick to the topic for discussion, things should stay cool.
Ok, cool!
We have what people usually call a ”gullible” mind.
We believe in faeries, elves, dwarves, (
) hobbi- wait… no, not those .
Dragons, Centaurs, etc…Some say we’re silly, easily fooled- HA! thats all they know…
Muahahahah!!!!
Black Riders…. Thats a new one.
Do you mean the Nazgul?
LOL! Hahahaha!
No kidding.
Yes. Also known as the Nazgul. I have had several personal encounters with them, and they are as real as the devil himself, I believe. Story available upon request.
I am now officially requesting it.
This I gotta hear….
I’m still here! I’m writing the story…
@andibug & nathanaelc@anniebug
NO!!! WHAT IS IT???
OH! @andiebugThere.
LOL!
Hurry hurry!
Trying…I’ll post some, and continue.
Some of it was posted \/
request!
Oh, boy. I hope I don’t dissapoint y’all. It may not seem as interesting when it didn’t happen to you…
Okay, so the fact is, that they are spiritual beings, and the encounters are made in the mind. At least, mine have been. Actually…I unknowingly played one, once.
The first part of the story…is that I ”created” the Nozgul. I have a picture to prove it. It was three years ago. I was inspired to create my own imaginary land, Flavia. Flavia was split into 6 provinces…I just noticed that. Curious. Those being Kahnara, Gaphry, Canturnia, Phelanasia, Jesria and Lesia.
Lesia and Jesria were in rebellion against Flavia, and a war was underway. I was a Lesian captain, in command of a fort known as Contedom. (There was a tree which well served as a castle-bells hung aloft in the ”bell tower”, a pendant-flag which I raised every morning, and lowered every evening, dressed in my dress-uniform, wearing my sword (this was for real.)You must now understand, that at this point, I knew very little about LotR. I knew the name, the author, that it was about a ring, carried by a little elf or something named Frodo, and of a wizard named Gandalf, who ”dies”. I really knew no more. I had never heard of the Black Riders, Nasgul, or otherwise.
Now, I chose a themesong for my imagination, and my imaginary world. In my ignorance, I knew not what ”Gnomus” meant. It was the first piece from Mussorgsky’s ”Pictures at an Exhibition”. So a song portraying a gnome became my themesong. Do you see the significance of that? I didn’t.
Then, as I listened to the music, in my mind’s eye, I stood on the great stairway that lead to the bell tower and looked out towards the distant hills surrounding-Oh…my…the blood just rushed out of my head…I never realized that the hills to which I looked…were to the East. Oh….my….goodness.
As I looked, the music ringing stirringly through my head, bringing my imagination to life, I heard the thunder of horses’ hooves, and over the hill came an ordered line of riders, brandishing swords. Each rider was entirely cloaked in black, his cloak billowing out in the wind; and each sat astride a solid black horse, and they galloped with malicious intent down into the glen.
I began shouting orders, seeing them nearing. The bell was ringing, my men rushing about.
And it came into my mind ”The Black Riders have come.”
I have on my knee, a map of Flavia, detailing troop positions, provinces, naval forces, and movement of enemy and friendly forces.
I just realized something else…I’ve been expecting to find something new about this, so I kept the map…Flavia looks like the face of a gnome. Had I descended into the middle earth?
I went inside after my adventure that day and drew a picture on ”Paint”-I never use paint, except for photoshopping and other little projects. I don’t know why I decided to this time.
I painted what I saw. I shall continue later. Interesting!
Maybe Tolkien had more up his sleeve than we know….
I can’t wait to hear the rest!
Hehe. I believe he did. Did you know the entire series was written at night? He said that he didn’t really feel that he wrote it of himself, but that it ”came to him.” In my experience, that’s how the occult seems to work.
My hand, in drawing the map, just wandered across the paper-no particular ideas for how Flavia ought to be shaped-it just came to me.
HE IS NOT PART OF THE ”OCCULT”…All great writers works ”came to them”…grrr…
:sigh: You can skip this part, Ali.
We’ll discuss it further, in the future, if you please. LOL…Okay Iater…;-)
Ridiculous.
He wrote at night because he worked in the day. When I write I also feel that the stories ’come’ to me. Many authors have that experience.
If you read Tolkien’s letters and read about his personal life, you will find him a faithful Christian. Did you know that it was Tolkien who brought C. S. Lewis to Christianity and thus indirectly affected millions toward salvation?
DITTO!!!
Okay, I must concede that argument. I never stood well behind that, being a writer myself.
I believe that Tolkien was a Christian, and that God can work through anything. But anyone who has been ”saved” because they were influnced by Narnia, is not on the solid ground of the truth, unless they set aside the fantasy.
Hmmm…looks like this is moving toward a Tolkien discussion. Let’s start a new group string for LotR.Thank you. The occultic writing of LotR argument annoys me to no end.
No one is saved by any one thing. Salvation is a journey not an event. But if someone were to be saved by Narnia or LotR, I don’t see why they would be on less solid ground than others.
I would still contend that LotR is occultic, however, whether he intended it to be, or not. If nothing else, the Black Riders assure me. So you believe that that, too, was balderdash?
Och, aye, indeed.
Because-particularly in Narnia’s case, (many think of LotR as a epic poem style work, and not an allegory of any kind), the truth is heavily watered down. One of my theme quotes:
”The most dangerous of untruths are those slightly distorted.”
-G.C. LichtenburgThe Black Riders are portrayed as definitely evil. Where’s the problem?
How is truth watered down in Narnia? If anything it is emphasized by the mythopoeic nature of the story.
Hey, man-this is my fault for not getting on enough-but could I catch up on all your arguments? LOL! You kinda overloaded me (You entirely have the right to-it’s just that I’m way behind.)
Aye, they are. But they’re real. And they’re a ”creation” of Tolkein’s-and mine. I don’t believe in such coincidences.
So, Tolkein had a fertile mind. He came up with such amazing, perfect names, like
Frodo
Gondor
Isengard
Aragorn
The Nasgul were known as such, so why must we also call them ”The Black Riders”. I think ”Black Riders” sounds a little out of place in such a poetic world. You could call them ”Dark Riders”, which flows so much better, etc. I’m not saying that Tolkein necessarily consulted dark powers for the information…he may have been like me. He may have dreamt it-or day-dreamt it. There are dark forces out there-and if you open yourself up to them-and they are very appealing-they will come.
Lewis speaks of Tash, saying ”He called for Tash: Tash has come…people shouldn’t call for demons unless they really mean what they say.”
Open yourself to them and they will come.
Believe me-I have experienced it. And it is not pretty.If indeed he meant for it to be an allegory, it is watered down and neutralized by nature of Aslan’s relationships and policies.
Sorry for the overload.
What do you mean that they are real? I guess wraiths have been around in legends long enough and perhaps they are even based on real ghosts or demons, but I don’t see any strange coincidence.
The reason for the name is simple and profound. Black Rider is the Hobbit name for Nazgul (the elvish name). Dark Rider would not have fit the Hobbits way of speaking or thinking nearly as well (Hobbits are based of English countryfolk). Anyway, why is Black worse than Dark? He used Dark in the ’Dark Lord.’
Yes you shouldn’t open yourself up, but these books don’t do that (at least for most people).
Once again, how is Narnia watered down? I’ve always found the message made extra clear by the mythic telling.
Hehe. I can climb over it, given the time…*checks* TWO A.M.???
I need to get to bed.
:sigh:They exist. For real. I ”created” them on my own.
The point is not that Dark or Black is worse. It’s that Tolkien and I-supposedly of our own accord-created these monsters for our worlds.
I don’t find that to be the case, mon ami.
If it is supposed to tell the story of the Gospel-okay, let’s put it this way: what is wrong with the Gospel, that we must rewrite it, and replace the truth with fiction? That’s just not logical OR righteous.
A lot of people create similar things to other people’s creations. I’ve done it many, many times myself., but we shouldn’t attach unproven superstition to it. It’s a natural phenomenon based on cultural images and a finite amount of creative possibilities.
Once again, just because its not the case for you, doesn’t prove anything for the majority of people, who don’t experience that problem.
We’re supposed reflect the truth (including the gospel) in everything we do and write. It’s not trying to ’re-write’ or ’replace’ the gospel. It’s rather in addition to the gospel as edifying and entertaining literature that can teach us many things. The only way to make your argument valid would be to argue against fiction as a whole as evil (which I would highly contend
).BRB. I gotta go do some school and chores.
Wow, that is FREAKY. I’ve had things like that happen to me, but never that pronounced. Sounds like you’re onto something! I must admit I like LoTR a lot more then I like Narnia….
It scares me now and then…believe it or not, I’m sometimes afraid of the dark.
Can I send you and @nathanaelc the pictures? I can scan the map, send the song, and attach the black riders paintings.
@andiebug if you like, I can send them to you, too, but I don’t have your email address.Really, though, LotR is far better, literally (as in literature), than TCON. I have a friend who refers to it as the last epic poem-and he has a point…but from where was this epic poem inspired, I’d like to know.
Sure, go ahead. That would be cool. I agree about LoTR- that’s what I think, too. I find that LoTR is easier to relate to than Narnia (Frodo not being able to resist the power of the ring (sort of), like we are sometimes not able to resist the temptations of the devil, stuff like that). It’s more of an everyman sort of thing. Narnia, I find, has loopholes in it’s representation of Aslan as God.
That’s just what I think, anyway. Alright. I’ll compile the info.
Aye, LotR is much deeper…but looks like we finally found our disagreement.
The occult side of LotR totally kills it for me. It’s gonna be hard for me to read them, with my weakness, no doubt.Aye. What a lot of people tend to forget, is that Lewis was an anglican-yet he’s revered by all denominations…I don’t get it.
Yeah…and correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t he an atheist who was converted back to Christianity by his friends in the Inklings group? That might explain how deep his books were, but it would also explain the ’loopholes’.
*gasp* We disagree?! Well, I guess we do, but I’ll admit that sometimes LoTR does stray towards being a bit dark. I mean, the title is pretty much talking about Sauron (the Lord of the Rings, he became ’lord’ of the rings forged for the elves, dwarves, etc). Interesting….
That is so.
My stance is very much against the witchcraft practiced in the Rings series, mostly. But I haven’t seen or read it yet. I’m gonna see it soon.
I see. My mom is like that too, but when I read the books, I just think of it as metaphors for real life. I believe that witchcraft stems from the devil, and the witchcraft in LoTR stems from Sauron, who is like the devil, so I look at it like that instead.
Hmmm….
We stand on the verge. We’ll have to discuss this in the future, under a LotR debate. Good idea. I’ve never debated literature withanyone before…that’ll be interesting.
What witchcraft??? The ’magic’ in LOTR is not occultic magic.
Ah! but is it not forbidden in the Scriptures?
occultic witchcrft is, but not the ’magic’ in LotR. The name doesn’t make it evil.
The use of supernatural power from a source other than the Creator of our universe is evil.
Exactly. All power, or ”magic,” used by the forces of good in LotR is directly derived from God (Eru or Illuvatar)
AH!!! To compare or parallel Illuvatar (whose name sounds slightly familiar) to the Almighty is a step down.
”To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.” -Isa. 40:25
”To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?” -Isa 46:5
”Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me…” -Isa 46:9
Why does he keep emphasizing this?
Here is something I wrote regarding Narnia-it applies to LotR, too.
”Nate Harris – Miss _____, a couple verses:
”2 Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”Why do we dare try to rewrite the story of our Lord’s passion???
”Isa 46:5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?”
A powerful question, put from Cobblestone Ministries:
”How naive of Christians to assume for one minute that the bible needs improvement with so-called ”allegorical tales” contrived in their vain imaginations!
Should we rewrite God’s words using our own? Is that not what it truly boils
down to? Improving the Gospel story? You say, ”Now wait a minute…I don’t think that way at all…” It is interesting that Christians are calling the Narnia movie a great witnessing tool that is ”not so offensive” to their unsaved friends. What ever happened to opening up the bible with your friend and presenting them the pure Gospel message straight out of God’s Word? Oh, you say it is old fashioned? You say it is ”archaic”. Yet Jesus said, ”If a man love me, he will keep my words…” John 12:48 says, ”He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall
judge him in the last day.” Notice it is not C.S. Lewis’ words that you need
to believe.How can we possibly retell the Gospel message by using mythological creatures and fantasy? Does the Bible need improvement? The Bible is God’s Holy Word. He gave us the Bible to learn. We don’t need a retelling of the Gospel. The beautiful story of the Gospel needs no improvement, folks. To say that we need fiction to show us the way, means that the bible needs improvement with our own words in our own feeble understanding…which is completely unacceptable if you love Jesus and keep His Word.”
I’m not comparing Illuvatar to God, he is God as portrayed in LotR. If portraying him in LotR is bad than so is portarying God in books land movies like: the Robe, the Passion, Bronze Bow,etc
These books don’t replace the gospel anymore than does Pilgrims Progress, the poems of George Herbert or Milton, the gospel lived out in the lives of Christians every day.
We shouldn’t replace the gospels, but we should relive them in our writing, reading, and our lives. That’s what these books do. What else would you have Christians write about if not retell the gospel of Christ? We don’t improve the gospel but we should use stories and other means to reveal things we haven’t yet seen.
He is supposed to be the ”God Figure”.
And there is no such thing, scripturally, except in the manner in which Jesus spoke.Presenting God as Jesus, our saviour, is presenting him for who he was; not some alien master of a dark world that is not ours. You ought to real @scottishclaymore ’s series on entertainment.
We corrupt them. We cannot retell them. Why not tell a story in which the ONE TRUE GOD reigns supreme? Is he not good enough?
I’ll leave you with one more Scripture:Rom 1:19-23
”Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.”He’s not the ’God-figure’ (though there’s nothing unbiblical about that) he IS God just with an elvish name. Why don’t you have a problem with books that take place in our world that have God in them? Are you contending that writing about other worlds is bad? Because certainly if you’re writing a book about another world you have write as if that world existed, and certain;y God would exist there as here.
How corrupt? In both Narnia and LotR the One True God rules supreme.
I’m not sure how that scripture applies, since it has to do with creating and worshiping idols, which isn’t the case in these books (there are no idols only representations of the true God.
He’s not the ’God-figure’ (though there’s nothing unbiblical about that) he IS God just with an elvish name. Why don’t you have a problem with books that take place in our world that have God in them? Are you contending that writing about other worlds is bad? Because certainly if you’re writing a book about another world you have write as if that world existed, and certain;y God would exist there as here.
How corrupt? In both Narnia and LotR the One True God rules supreme.
I’m not sure how that scripture applies, since it has to do with creating and worshiping idols, which isn’t the case in these books (there are no idols only representations of the true God.
Yikes!
I missed this in the huge amount of comments!
Sorry…. Yes!, I would love to see them.
Okay.
I lost my map!!! It dissapeared that very night-I’ve looked everywhere!
I’ll keep looking, and send it to you ASAP.Heh…. stuff does that to me all the time
Rather annoying, is it not?
LOL! You speak dryly. LOL! Indeed. Quite. Hahahaha!
The last part is anticlimactic. My final encounter was the time I played one…
One day, @andrewharris and I were in a thrift shop, looking through their costumes (I love costumes), and Andrew stumbled across a grim reaper robe, which he commenced to purchase. I bought a large swath of black cloth, and we bought a white mask at Hobby Lobby.
That night, we figgered we’d play a joke on our little sisters-Andrew got into the costume-white mask, robe, and the black cloth as a cape, and he hovered outside their window.
We played along a little while, and when the girls started figgered, ”It’s only Andrew.”
So to ”prove” it wasn’t, I went outside, got into the costume, and commenced to run across the yard. Occasionally, I have fear of the dark-and that night I did. Then I finally realized that I would probably scare someone worse than they would scare me (it was a truly freaky outfit.)
I played for awhile…and suddenly realized…
I told Andrew to throw it away. When I explained to him why, he did…we still have the mask, though the robe is gone…and it seems to me that they’ve been following me-whenever I recognize them, I run-but next thing you know, they’ll show up in something else.
Now, the Black Riders are in more than just LotR. Have any of you seen Bridge to Terabithia? Aye, there is a character known as the ”Dark Master”-looks just like a Black Rider, yet has no connection to them at all.Now, the Black Riders vary slightly in appearance from scenario to scenario. I had three kinds in Rostainbul (which was the mysterious country to the North East of Flavia, from whence they came).
They all had the same fundamental look, but the difference was in their faces, and their fighting habits.
There were three divisions-
1. The Blacks
The blacks had black-jet black-faces and had a deep, bass roar that they made as they descended into battle.
2. The Reds
The reds, obviously now, had red-blood red-faces, and rode in deathly silence; never a sound.
3. The Whites
These had ghostly white faces, and emitted a high-pitched wail/scream as they descended.Otherwise, they were the same. The pictures are of White Black Riders.
Hmmm…
Again, fascinating!
Makes you stop and think, doesn’t it?
Made me.
@pelayo speaking…I believe in Good angels and bad Angels. No elves and fairies ( my goodness gracious! Devils may take on those forms though, if they choose or such people that worship devils)..Black riders are devils. ”Giants” are unusually tall people..dwarves are unusually short..CS. Lewis’s characters are make believe allegorical to real things…
as are Tolkien’s..Some of the Greek ’gods” may have been devils or possessed persons..they of course were not ”gods” ’cause there is only one God and He is infinitely perfect…even Aristotle figured that out…My point exactly, ma ami. Devils take on other forms. There are two sides to this battle:
There is the Lord’s side.
And there is the Devil’s side.”On this battlefield there are no rusty swords.”-Michael Card
Ali, the human race has been speaking of giants and dwarves for ages.
EXACTLY! We refer to them as ”gods”-notice the ”-quotations. They are so-called ”gods”. You repeat what we’ve been saying-not that it’s a bad thing, as it shows that, to an extent, at least, we agree.
I don’t think we should try and figure out what kind of devils are out there…my dear children…
Now seriously do you actually believe there are ”elves” and ’fairies’ ? Do you think they are devils?We’re not. The point is, the Devil has all kinds of tactics in his deceptive actions. He is a master of deception.
I do not believe in elves and fairies as strong as I do in giants. But yes, I believe they are devils.Interesting…have fun reading Lord of the Rings…LOL
I will, no doubt.
okay I’m with Nathan pretty much but the Giant thing bring Greek God’s is speculation, just as is my opninon that the Greek Gods were Satanic ideology given to the Greeks by Demons. Who ould have children degraded and have gods to for such hainous acts ad rape murder and maybe some dum ones like the god of mold
Hey, man. Thanks for the support…but I can’t quite understand what you’re trying to say.
LOL!
Me either, to be frank.
your Greek god idea!!!!! the giant thing about how Greek God’s came to exist!!
Well, what we’re saying is that the Greeks actually worshipped demons.
@brianfactor methinks it’s time to start the Narnian JibeNow debate… say… next week or the week after?
LOL! I guess I grew impatient, didn’t I? LOL!
Hey, if y’all want to host an official JN debate, let’s have at it.Sounds like a good idea for me. I guess send out a query for an opponent (preferably one… perhaps @undothehorsepen or @scottishclaymore) and then shoot Brian a PM.
NOT SCOTTISHCLAYMORE!!!!! *cowers behind his books, and papers.*
”Wait.”*clears throat, sets face, and locks his hands behind his back to hide the trembling.*
LOL!- LOL!!
Hehe. Yeah. I’ve debated him before online, and he whooped me.
That’s when we were discussing Scottish History-concerning which, he is a genius. Anyway, it’ll be a fair match.
Emma and I probably couldn’t debate well-we agree on too much. I can’t really think of many people with whom I agree as much as we do.
You and I seem to agree on a lot…but we still haven’t discussed a lot of stuff, so we’ll see. We do agree on one really big thing, though… :smirk: LOL!well finally seeing the full content and me not reading the whole thing (as usual) Nathan brings up some good points but in final Narnia support the use of witchcraft and has a strong presence of the Greek gods. Now the Greek god that shows up int he story somebody please tell me his name? well he was in greek culture the god of sin, sex, and all other sinful things. The second final conclusion to narnia is that the ”good” characters bring the witch back. This is entirely unbiblical and is quite satanic. I suggest harry potter next because I’d like to see what y’all say
Narnia is chock full of Greek deities-Pan, the river god, Baccus, etc…
Actually, they never bring the witch back. Those who did were killed. But the Narnians had witches (wizards) of their own, so called ”good” wizards.
Really, Harry Potter is not so much of a threat yet. The way I see it, if the walls of Narnia fall, Harry Potter lies exposed and doomed to the truth.
Narnia is the greatest of the fantastic deceptions, as it was written in a way, that many believe was allegorical.
I’m not an authority on LotR, really, much less Harry Potter…that’s somewhere in the future. We still have a long way to go with Narnia.Witches are not wizards my dear…
Ali…please pay this place a brief visit. Helps clear things up.
There is indeed a difference-but slight. Both are still in violation of God’s law.http://fillthevoid.org/Children/TheBattle/ForbiddenPractices/WhatisaForbiddenPractice.html
Tolkien’s ”Wizards” are not the same ”Wizards” on the above website…so there…
It is slightly amusing you give me a link to a website like that lad..
*also smirks* Har, true true….of course, I’m pretty sure that any of you could beat the pants off me in a debate. Regardless of the fact that Dunvegan Highlander and I agree on most everything. But come on- there HAS to be something we disagree on! It’s not possible!
lolHehehe. Well, if you know what you’re talking about, you have potential to be a good debater. Just be confident.
LOL! I’m sure we do-I’ll have to risk it someday, just to find something we disagree on… Most of the time I do know what I talking about…the only things I’ve ever debated are politics, though, so I’m not sure how that would work out for another subject.
Lol! I agree…I’m curious to know. There has to be something…something! It’s not often I find someone who I agree with so much….like never. I lost my stomach for politics last presidential campaign. Now I just look at them as a bunch of corrupt nutballs…I’ll just keep living my life.
But I still discuss them sometimes. I don’t think I really ever have, either. This is very interesting…but looks like we found something at last.
Lol, I think I’m probably going to lose it myself during the next Canadian election (we have an American runniing- that’s okay for Americans, but this is Canada. Seriously. No offense
What happened to Stephan Dion?) Yeah, I guess we have. I was starting to get worried there.
WHAT??? YOU HAVE AN AMERICAN RUNNING??? LOL! What a nut! Lass, you don’t offend me that way.
Not much you could say about the US would offend me. *hides as the majority of other JNers throw grenades, knives…responses!
I am a Texan!!!! Remember the Alamo!!!
Pardon my ignorance-who is Dion?
Lol! You’re not ignorant at all. Dion used to be the French-Canadian leader of the Canadian Liberal political party….the American I mentioned, Michael Ignatius, is the new leader now and he really wants to win. I hate the Liberals. And yes, Ignatius is a nut.
Oh! Okay.
Well, Obama is a liberal. Oh? Interesting. We have…five political parties in Canada: New Democrats (NDP), Conservatives, Liberals, Green and Bloc. We generally waver between the Liberals and Conservatives as our leaders, but I still don’t know what it would be like just having two. What’s the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats? All I know is that it’s a different style of government and that the US was originally a republic.
There’s really no difference (ducks flying bricks and bullets from other Americans).
You know, young lady, I find it very sad that you are aware of that fact: because a good many Americans don’t know that. A Canadian is putting them to shame! tsk, tsk.
*hands Dunvegan Highlander steel umbrella* Lol, if I was caught singing praises of the NDP I might get assasinated.
(But the NDP isn’t that bad! It was the Conservatives! Sorry.)
Eep, that’s sad…. It’s the same here though too. I was talking to a historian at a pioneer village, and he told me this story about a little boy who’d come into the building; when told who the Father of Confederation was (John A Macdonald, among others), this boy took one look at Macdonald’s picture on the wall and said, ”That isn’t George Washington!” Sad…but funny, in a twisted sort of way. I guess it’s the same everywhere, which is sad. :-/LOL! Thank you.
Oh, they’re all messed up these days, one way or the other. They’re made up of men.
Hahaha! That is comically sad.Lol, exactly! We have to remember that when looking at the world. Otherwise, we’d go crazy.
-
Lewis is definitely an interesting topic for discussion. He’s great at making good arguements for the existence of God, but he seems to have retained a little bit of his pre-Christianity days.
Ditto. He spoke a lot of truth-his ”Mere Christianity” made a lot of sense, stuff that I agreed with (some of it I didn’t, though.) But you’re exactly right.
I still fail to see the problem with Narnia. I believe the ”pagan deities and creatures” as you call them have an eminent place in the literature of Western Civilization regardless of their origins (though there is no proof that most of them are demonic in origin, but even if they were that doesn’t mean that they continue to have demonic relevance).
Quite frankly, if Lewis and Tolkien were alive and heard these accusations that are being made more and more often by pseudo-conservative ( I say ’pseudo’ because the true meaning of conservative includes conserving our heritage) southern American Christians (no offense intended to this group which I am partially part of), they would either laugh at the naivety and superstition of the accusations or would be incredibly worried by the conspiratorial direction some American Christians are taking.
No offense intended to anyone, by my somewhat heated posts. I’m very passionate on the subject because I believe fantasy and fairy tale are an essential part of our Christian literary tradition, which too many american undervalue and misunderstand.
Do you guys understand what a huge influence the Inklings have had on the resurgence of Christianity in the last half century (and no, I don’t just mean Lewis)???
A very interesting belief, I must admit.
It depends. I will also admit that you are more of an authority on Tolkien than I…so I dare not argue too closely.
I’ll argue all day about Lewis, though. What would you argue about Lewis? (in this context).
Where shall we begin?
Have you read the first string of this discussion? It is only a few of my thoughts.
But here is a nutshell of a few:1. Lewis experienced a ”lust for the occult.”
2. He was heavily influenced by Apollo, the Greek sun god, after whom a good many of Aslan’s properties are modeled.
3. There is only one way to the Father.
4. None of us will ever be gods.That’s a few….
Rather he STRUGGLED with the lust for the occult.
Okay…
1. Yes I’ve read where he said that, but it proves nothing. Most people experience that at different times in their lives.
2. Where does he say that? Comparison of Aslan with Apollo is very artificial. It takes minor attributes of Apollo and tries to force Aslan to fit the mold.
3. Yes, I believe Lewis never contradicts this.
4. Ok, where does Lewis say people will become gods? Mormons say that, but not Lewis.
1. Have you? Tell me, then: is it a good thing?
Notice the strong emphasis on the East and the Sun throughout the books. Here’s an example that really slapped me in the face:
”Both of them held up their arms before them, and turned to face the east.”
-Voyage of the Dawn Treader”Let’s stand side by side, like this, and we’ll hold our arms out in front of us with the palms down, like they did in Ramandu’s Island…and he might like us to face east…”
-The Silver ChairAnd remember how Aslan also comes from the east?
Another thought-Aslan was killed in the evening, and arose the next morning, just as the sun was arising-there’s a whole article on this.
3. Lewis believed that people of other religions were unknowingly following Christ through their own gods. This is reflected in Aslan’s policy toward Emeth.
4. Aye, Lewis says we will. “[God] said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess.”-Mere Christianity
Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
In this case, I believe the east is facing toward Babylon, quite different from the Christian practice f standing east (more like the Muslim practice of facing Mecca, which was stolen from the Jews).
It says that they worshipped the SUN.
Yes they did, but how is that relevant?
1. Yes I have, but not ever through Christian fantasy. In fact it has had the opposite effect on me.
2. Let me give you a history lesson. Ever since the time of Christ, Christians have held the belief that Christ will return from the east with the rising sun. That’s why in my church (Orthodox) we still build our churches facing east and we face east when we pray before meals. Many other Christians do the same. It is not accident that Tolkien and Lewis have their characters do the same.
Aslan rose with sunrise, so did Christ.
3. Yes he believed some may be saved who don’t knowingly follow Christ. So do I and many other Christians (I’ve given several Apologetics speeches on this topic. In fact I used Emeth’s story in a few times).
4. Figuratively, yes. The Bible does say that. we call it ”theosis” in Orthodoxy, translated literally as the process of becoming godlike, which is God’s ultimate will and why He created us in his image.
1. This is a rare thing, mon ami.
2. Whoa. This makes my arguments irrellevant.
I guess I’m addressing protestants. The Scriptures say that he will be seen from all points of the compass.
What happened to the three days?
4. Well, than in that theological regard…We can’t agree :sigh:
Trust me, I hate dissagreements between friends. I’ll still be a friend to someone with whom I disagree-don’t get me wrong. 5. That sounds more like what the Serpant in Eden said…
1. How do you know? I have found it rare.
2. Some protestant churches do it too.
Why should it have to be like the Bible in every detail? Three days wouldn’t have fit the story.
4. We can agree to disagree.
Though if you send me an email I can send you the scriptural basis for the belief. (which is quite extensive).5. No, the serpent said Eve could be equal to god. God says in the Bible that the goal is for us to be like him (figuratively to become gods), all Christians have believed since Christ.
1. Fanatacism (sp) exploded with the release of both the Narnia and LotR movies…and with that fanatacism, you see the many of the generation let their imaginations run free, and that is the dangerous thing.
2. I was talking to Ali (who is a Catholic) yesterday, and she said it wasn’t so. But being an independent ”Protestant” in the bonds of Jesus Christ, I wouldnae ken better than either of ye. Hey, and I’m not saying the Protestants are right.
I’ve known Catholics with whom I share more beliefs than many Protestants I’ve kent. It’s a distortion of the story. The way that the Passion worked out, was key in every manner. What is the need to replace the Gospel?
4. Ditto. So long as you’re still me friend.
Sure! I will do so, soon.5. Gods are objects worshipped, or worthy of worship. Nae, there’s not one of us who is. He said that he would make us KINGS AND PRIESTS, which is a little different. Kings, representitives of order, rule, and authority; and priests, ministers of God.
Hehe. I’ve never believed I was fated to be a god. You’re the first person, second to Lewis, who I’ve heard defend that argument. 1. No different than with Dickens, Orwell, Ayn Rand or any other extremely popular writer.
2. She said what wasn’t so? I have no idea about what Catholics do now days, since I’m not Catholic (they used to do it in the Middle Ages though), and I believe Anglicans (which was Lewis’ church) and some other high church protestants still do it.
4. I’m a highly opinionated person and I wouldn’t have friends if they all had to agree with me. I disagree with most of my friends on something
5. There is a passage in psalms where he says he’ll make us gods (i don’t remember exact wording) which is what Lewis was referring too. It’s figurative language used both in the Bible and by Lewis and by many theologians (remember theosis? ).
By the way here’s an excellent explanation (with scriptures) of the whole ”becoming a god” argument:
”The statement by St. Athanasius of Alexandria, ”The Son of God became man, that we might become god”, [the second g is always lowercase since man can never become a God] indicates the concept beautifully. II Peter 1:4 says that we have become ” . . . partakers of divine nature.” Athanasius amplifies the meaning of this verse when he says theosis is ”becoming by grace what God is by nature” (De Incarnatione, I). What would otherwise seem absurd, that fallen, sinful man may become holy as God is holy, has been made possible through Jesus Christ, who is God incarnate. Naturally, the crucial Christian assertion, that God is One, sets an absolute limit on the meaning of theosis – it is not possible for any created being to become, ontologically, God or even another god. ” (Orthodox Wiki)
Number 3 sounds like an arguement that my agnostic friend would make.
I take it you condemn all ceremony as pagan.
Or most, anyway.
No. Not necessarily. That is a part-to-the-whole fallacy.
Hmm. I would be interested in hearing you explain this – I don’t think I’ve ever heard it before.
All ceremony? Christian knighthood ceremonies, Christian marriage ceremonies…I don’t even think there’s much wrong with the ceremony of initiating a new MacLeod of Harris Chieftain-that is, he must, in one gulp, down an entire Rory’s Horn of whiskey…LOL!
I strongly believe in Spiritual powers-and I do not believe that demons should be used to ”promote” Christianity.
Well, I would be very interested to hear how Lewis would defend his claim that there are other roads to salvation, and his Narnia books. I personally am very concerned by the path that their works have lead Christians down. They work very contrary to the statutes of God.
I gather that you are very traditionalist…;-) I’m another sort of traditionalist.
I also believe in Spiritual powers. I even believe many of the pagan gods were probably demons in origin. But the assertion that demons are being used to promote Christianity is bogus.
1) Lewis doesn’t use demons to promote Christianity, he uses common literary characters of his time (Greek mythology was a regular school subject in British schools).
2) 99% of the mythological characters he uses don’t have demonic origins (ie. are not pagan gods)
3) Something can have demonic origins and be turned for good (arguably rock was demonic in origin, also it could easily be argued that the wheel was created as a mass killing device used in the ancient WMD, chariots, and the same could be said of spurs, modern airplanes, etc).
I have yet to hear any credible argument for harm caused by Lewis or Tolkien’s works, except the former witches who experienced fantasy being perverted for evil. Which leads me to an important point: things created for good can be perverted to evil (examples: war-gaming, metallurgy, writing, mankind, etc) and things created for evil can be used for good (examples: wheels, guns, mythical characters, rock music, etc). Fantasy and myth were created good before they were perverted for evil. I could go into why i believe that, but it would take a whole other discussion.
Why so? The creatures that fill the Narnian world are demonic in origin.
So…if I were to create a world full of vampires and werewolves for a literary work, and put them in the place of heroes, would this also be acceptable?
Actually, at least 80% of the creatures he uses are demonic in origin, excepting man, and ”dumb, witless” animals.
In this case it is actual demons and demonically inspired creatures in use. Not practical tools.
The Scriptures say, ”Woe to them who call evil good.” We cannot try to take something we enjoy and flip it around-trying to make something incompatible with God’s moral law, compatible.
But both of those things are very…subjective. What is your fantasy? What is this myth?
Assertion, Mr Harris.
You can’t prove that anything from Greek mythology is demonic in origin (though I’d agree a few gods probably were).@vampires and werewolves: I could see a story like that being ok, though most presentations of those creatures are inherently evil.
80%? Where do you get that number? Nymphs, naiads, driads, water spirits, etc are all manifestations of the pantheistic idea that everything has a life-form; fauns, centaurs, dwarves, giants, etc are all creatures that may or may not be based off real living creatures of the past; the only things I can possibly see as perhaps having demonic origin would be Bachus and Silenus (only a few pages out of one out of seven Narnia books), but even there we can’t be sure.
Actual demons and demonically inspired creatures? Assertion again. lack of both proof and probability.
Yes, but Lewis doesn’t call anything evil good. He uses myth and mythological creatures in their pure, good form. It’s not his fault that they may have been corrupted. Just because the people who wrote the myths and made up the gods and creatures, were pagan does not make the myths evil. In fact the myths are essentially good (though sometimes corrupted for evil), since they are mimicking the works of God. J. R. R. Tolkien puts it beautifully:
”All the other myths of the world are a mixture of truth and error – truth because they are written by those made by and for God – error because written by those alienated by God. But the Bible is the one true myth. It is a true accounting of truth, while everything else we do is mimicking.”
You have yet to show anywhere that 1) pagan myths and the creatures in the myths are evil, 2) that myths and the creatures in the myths are incompatible with God’s law.
In fact believe quite the opposite. Another quote from Tolkien sums my position up well:
”Only through myth, through story telling can we aspire to the life we were made for with God. To write and/or read myth was to meditate on the most important truths of life.”
To conclude, ”‘treat the Myth with respect,” as Lewis says.
1. Och, are they of God? Mayhap some were of men, but a good many likely originated from the demonic influence and presence. Do you believe in the nephilim?
2. Whoa, Alex. LOL! No kidding? These creatures are positively SATANIC. Would you find a vampire ”Christ figure” acceptable?
3. ”Nymphs, naiads, driads, water spirits, etc are all manifestations of the pantheistic idea that everything has a life-form; fauns, centaurs, dwarves, giants, etc are all creatures that may or may not be based off real living creatures of the past; the only things I can possibly see as perhaps having demonic origin would be Bachus and Silenus.”
Maybe some of them. But I would contend that not all were. The fact is still that it is an evil idea. It’s earth-worship.
Oh! I’ll respond more later. I have a point I missed.
1. Some of them may be of God, so may be of men. Perhaps a few were demonic, though I’ve never read anything to make me think so. What do you mean by believe in the Nephilim? I believe they existed, I have lots of theories on them (none which I necessarily believe since there’s no proof), and I don’t believe the conspiracy theories circling online.
2. How are they inherently satanic? they may have demonic origins, but that’s not the same (though it happens vampires originate from an animal). I would be disturbed if that was done in the current climate of vampire stories, but I could possibly see that if the definition of a vampire drastically transformed into something virtuous. The point is vampires and other characters are literary devices subject to change just like literary styles.
3. Pantheism is a wrong idea, though not necessarily demonic. What proof do you have that they wee demonic in origin? And even if you were to prove it, you have yet to show that demonic origin doesn’t mean it can’t evolve into something that can be used for good. God often turns Satan’s dirtiest tricks back on him.
2.
1. Other gods-of God? That’s contrary to the first of the Commandments. Heheh. I’m not going to argue about conspiracy ”theories” out here…
2. I beileve in curses, and that things of demonic origin are forever tainted-never can they be called good.
”Woe to those who call evil good.”
Some claim that vampires are real…which would make them demonic, or demonically posessed. Nae, nae, not acceptable-I would never represent the Gospel with a demon as my ”Christ Figure”.3. The idea is anti-Christ. It invents other deities, which are of the devil, originating in sin and depravity.
Why do we need those things, though? Are we not saved by belief in the power, blood, and Sacrifice of Christ Jesus? Can we really expose ourself to those things and then say that they are a-okay? Does that not weaken our Spirits? Our whole, entire loyalty to the ONE TRUE GOD?1. No other spirits that humans might have mistaken for gods. (Though God IS called the God of gods in scripture).
2. Well, I guess we can agree to disagree here as well. I’m not sure whether I believe in curses, but even if I did I believe God is stronger than curses. Vampires are bats warped by human imagination . They may be used demonically, and I have yet to see them used in a good way, and I certainly wouldn’t use one as a Christ figure, but it’s not beyond the impossible that someday in the future they evolve into something where that wouldn’t be a problem (such a a science fiction about a planet inhabited by vampires or something).
3. Pantheism isn’t of Christ so it could be called anti-Christ, but is also a human invention..It doesn’t invent deities it invents spirits (Not the same thing at all btw) in various objects (something that most children imagine, which is probably the whole origin of pantheism). In short pantheism (in its root origin) is an imaginative superstition not an anti-Christian religion (though some pantheists morphed into this).
1. Then do you advocate Pantheism? (Yes, I’ve read your comment below) What you’re implying is that there are indeed other gods worthy of worship, yet God is still supreme. That is very like the Roman and Grecian religions-with Zeus/Jupiter as the ”god of gods” (granted, they had ”brother gods”, but it’s still similar.
2. The Scriptures are full of curses-God’s threats, etc.
Vampires are real, that is, as in animal form.
There are many people who would take the same stance as you regarding wizards and magical creatures.
Okay, say an apple tree was planted in a toxic waste site…hehe. TP castback. That fruit may be picked, polished, displayed, sold, and eaten; but just because it shines doesn’t mean it’s origins are acceptable.3. Human nature IS anti-Christ. Because Christ is sinless and holy, and we are sinful, therefore, our NATURE is anti-Christ. That’s why He came to conform us to his image, to give us life in His Spirit. That Spirit is not anti-Christ, and rejects what was once ours in our sin-nature.
1. Of course not. It’s a childish superstition with no basis in reality. How am I implying that there are other gods worthy of worship? Are you contending that ALL spirits are gods???
2. Yes, but not the same definition of curse as you are using. You are using ’curse’ in the ironically pagan way of something inherent rather than a threat by God.
Yes vampires are real animals created by God, and then twisted by humans.
I might agree with them on many of those things. Yes, the origins are unacceptable, but does not mean the apple is unacceptable. Just as incest is evil, but the child born from incest isn’t necessarily evil.
3. That’s one, common view. My view is similar though not exactly the same, but close enough. so yes pantheism is anti-Christ as I said earlier, but not necessarily demonic in origin.
It is the order of goods. The incest trades the higher good for a lower good, which is the conception of the child. I won’t quite yet say that is why it is wrong, though. I have limits.
1. Of course not. It’s a childish superstition with no basis in reality. How am I implying that there are other gods worthy of worship? Are you contending that ALL spirits are gods???
2. Yes, but not the same definition of curse as you are using. You are using ’curse’ in the ironically pagan way of something inherent rather than a threat by God.
Yes vampires are real animals created by God, and then twisted by humans.
I might agree with them on many of those things. Yes, the origins are unacceptable, but does not mean the apple is unacceptable. Just as incest is evil, but the child born from incest isn’t necessarily evil.
3. That’s one, common view. My view is similar though not exactly the same, but close enough. so yes pantheism is anti-Christ as I said earlier, but not necessarily demonic in origin.
1. No, you said, ”(Though God IS called the God of gods in scripture.)” It sounded as if you were saying that there are indeed other gods that the One True God is merely superior to.
2. Well…not EXACTLY. It’s like eating meat sacrificed to idols. I’ll leave it at that, so I don’t get long-winded, and you can drag it out with your response.
Unless I was starving, I wouldn’t eat that apple. It is a poisoned-I’m not going to poison meself, so long as I have a choice. Besides, I ain’t gonna starve so long’s I’m a-livin’ on the Bread and Water of Life.
3. Permit me, if you will, to say ”sinful” instead of demonic? Sin originally comes from the Devil, which makes it dialbolic, anyway, and its wages are death.
So we have creatures of sinful origin, and creatures of demonic origin…I find it hard to choose the lesser of two evils in this case…for me. 1. lol, I’m not sure why I through that scripture in, though it probably refers to both good and bad spirits that men thought were gods (even the patriarchs had other gods you know, it wasn’t till Moses that God revealed himself as the only god).
2. But remember Paul said eating sacrificed meat isn’t bad in itself, only inso much as it would make someone stumble. What I’m trying to say is there may very well come a time when using a vampire won’t make people stumble anymore and thus will be ok.
3. But sinful =/= demonic , and stuff that comes from demonic inspiration (occult, etc) should be treated very differently than stuff that springs from sin (clothes, guns, pantheistic fears, anger, etc).
Pantheism is false, I agree if that’s what you’re trying to say. If not, I’m not sure what you’re saying.
Going back to the origins of creatures from pantheism, though, coming from a false (and possibly sinful) belief doesn’t make them taboo as characters in a Christian book, otherwise other things from sinful origins would have to be left out of our books as well (death, clothes, weapons, thieves, drug cartels, etc).
We are capable of sinning on our own, remember?
That’s probably a good idea, but might it be because of the effect on humanity and not because it is inherrantly evil? I’m not certain on this because I don’t know too much about vampires, but it could be a possibility?
What’s a good idea?
Not portraying Christ as a vampire.
In response to point 3, we are human, are we not? This is the problem I personally have with most modern Christianity. While not openly professing to do so, it seems to make the Christian into something like a god in that they are liberated from humanity by becoming ”saved”. We are still human, reguardless of whether or not we are in God’s grace.
Something can be influenced by demons without being occult-worship.
Would it be the vampire that was evil, or putting Christ in a figure that has evil connotations?
Both. Haha!
So, now you have to prove that vampires (are we talking the bats?) are evil in themselves.
NO! Not the bat!
…although it would be demented to portray the Lord Jesus as a bat, of all things. Good grief. LOL!
For something that was orginally demonic to be used for good, would it not have to have the demons removed and all their influences? Or, even if the demons were gone, could not something unnatural remain? Like in the case of rock music, are not the Christian lyrics what is good, and not necessarily the music?
What do you mean by Lewis’ belief that there are other paths to salvation?
Sorry, bro, I gotta go for now (curfew is 11:00 on Tuesdays.)
So, good night to you! God bless! I’ll respond soon.(Above)
That’s not other paths, that’s just alternate ways of going on the same path (Christ) which many if if not most Christians would accept as at least possible if not likely.
I do not believe that Buddah saves.
No he doesn’t, but Christ saves. He can even save through Buddha.
That would definitely qualify as opening a can of worms…..
I agree *in principle* (I refuse to put God in a box…)- but in practice I absolutely,100% disagree.
what do you mean by ’in practice.’
Ok, By ”In Practice”, I mean that:
There is no direct teachings in the Bible to give us the idea that buddhist’s/muslims/etc. will go to heaven- we cannot base any assumptions/hopes/beliefs upon that idea.By ”In Theory”, I ,mean that:
God can do whatever he want’s to do. At all.
Ah, I see. Though there is actually lots of Biblical basis for believing some non-Christians can be saved.
I think I know what you’re referring to-
Please explain…PM me your email and I’ll send you my position when I write it up for Nathan and Michael. I don’t feel like debating salvation theology right now.
LOL! No kidding…and on top of that, how many topics are we trying to debate right now? I’m running ragged. LOL!
No kidding.
They can be, but it is extremely difficult and improbable.
By Biblical standard-by the covenant that the Lord has made, however, the only way to salvation is through Jesus. I wouldn’t risk anyone else.
Yes, he is the only way to salvation, but that’s very different from saying all who don’t know Jesus are damned (though it does mean those who knew him and left him will be, unless by his mercy).
Sorry to butt in here but…did you just say that ”not all who don’t know Jesus will be damned”????
Um I confused by your question. What I’m saying here is that we can’t know that all non-Christians will be damned.
I didn’t say anything about ”non-Christians”. Let me put it to you this way. Are you saying that, There are some people who don’t know Jesus that will be saved (not damned)?
Jesus is the only way to salvation if that’s what you’re asking.
Ok excellent…so if Jesus is the only way to salvation…then how can you possibly say, ”but that’s different from saying all who don’t know Jesus are damned..”??? If Jesus is the one way to be saved, then you have to place your faith and trust in Him. And to do that, you have to know Him. THEREFORE, if you don’t know Jesus..then you are in fact..damned.
Because I believe Jesus is the way/path/road to salvation, but that doesn’t mean people couldn’t be saved by him without knowing who he is. The Bible talks about those who aren’t Christians but are justified by their faith and lives, plus there are many other verses showing that non-Christians can still follow Jesus without knowing it. Plus there’s alway God’s mercy. He can save anyone he wants through Jesus in his mercy.
Please name one person who wasn’t a ”Christian” but was justified by their faith and life.
I don’t know a specific person, but there is verse that says that. PM me your email and I’ll send you the Biblical basis for this in a few days when I get a chance to collect the verses for DH.
umm…ok. Until then, here’s a verse for you to chew on… ”Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God concerning them is for their salvation!
I can testify about them that they have zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Because they disregarded the righteousness from God and attempted to establish their own righteousness, they have not submitted to God’s righteousness.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
For Moses writes about the righteousness that is from the law: The one who does these things will live by them.
But the righteousness that comes from faith speaks like this: Do not say in your heart, “Who will go up to heaven?” that is, to bring Christ down
or, “Who will go down into the abyss?” that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.
On the contrary, what does it say? The message is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. This is the message of faith that we proclaim:
if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.
Now the Scripture says, No one who believes on Him will be put to shame,
for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, since the same Lord of all is rich to all who call on Him.
For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:1-13Yes, I’ve read that verse before.
And it never states that only Christians will be saved.You can believe in Christ without knowing his name. (here’s where I recommend reading Emeth and Aslan’s conversation at the end of the Last Battle as a good explanation). Btw, my email is now sent.Umm, maybe you should read it again. It says pretty clearly, ”If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Please explain to me, cause I still don’t understand, how you can confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and not know His name???
Yes, you will be saved if you do that, but it doesn’t say that’s the only way you’ll be saved through Jesus.
Read my email, that explains in more depth.
I have. And you never once quoted a scripture that said anything about ”being saved BY Jesus THROUGH something else”.
No, but I did quote scripture saying those who didn’t know Jesus can be justified by their faith and lives.
But like I said I don’t want to debate it right now.
I likewise do not want to debate, but this is fairly important. What faith can a person be justified by? Faith in Ghandi?
Faith in Jesus which he thinks is faith in someone else.
As Aslan says in the Last Battle,”If any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for ghe oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do cruelty in my name, then though he says the name of Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted.”
Once again, please point me to where it clearly says this in Scripture…’cause I’m not gonna base my beliefs on what a ficticious lion has to say on the subject.
If you don’t think the scriptures I sent that say just that aren’t enough there ain’t much more I can do.
Ummmmmmmmm….you sent me a scripture that said, ”if you had faith in something other than Jesus,
but somehow you really did, (you just didn’t know it) you will be saved”??? I think I would remember such a scripture…Anyways…if you really dont want to discuss this any further, than so be it. Honestly I don’t like doing this stuff online…but this IS an EXTREMELY important topic.
Maybe we could get together and discuss it in person sometime. This back-and-forth updating seems so impersonal…I think a real life conversation would be much more efficient/beneficial. No but it does say people can live their lives in Christ without knowing his commandments. Plus all those other verses.
This would be interesting to discusss in person, though I think it slightly less important (it doesn’t really matter if we know who Jesus saves as long as we know his commandments for us), but I’m about to head off for college unfortunately.
I agree…if by that you mean, fallen creatures can tell the truth occasionally, even though they didn’t know that God hates
lying….but even though they walked in accordance with God’s commands for a short while, that doesn’t mean that they will be justified in the end.
If that’s what you believe then you believe in a ”works saves” faith.You think this is slightly less important?? What is a more important topic to a Christian than the matter of salvation?????
I believe, ”by grace we have been saved through faith,” and also ”faitht without works is dead,.” Our difference is that you believe faith requires knowledge and I disagree.
Salvation is very important, but knowing who gets saved isn’t as important.
So, the works can be good or evil, just as long as he has faith?
He can, but……
Think about it this way: is it not possible for someone who believes to not be saved at the end? How much harder, then, would it be for one who does not believe?
Um, maybe indirectly by using him to bring the soul to Christ…
*agrees with Mr. Alex here*
They would say we’re Puritans.
same here! I can’t write or read any other time. There’s alwaystoo much going on! lol
*Sighs* I swore I wasn’t going to get drug into this, but let me just say that your theory about the origins of the characters of Greek mythology sounds nice, but it’s wholly fallacious and not supported by actual historical fact. Please, please, please, research before you make theoretical assertions.
An interesting reply…I know you don’t want to get deeply involved, but I would appreciate an explanation as to why it is ”wholly fallacious”.
*sighs again* – There’s a pretty well-researched and fairly credible historical creationist theory that traces the origins of all the pagan religions in the world back to a common source. I really can’t go into it more than that without citing sources and explaining the origins of abstract names and places.
Also, your theory does not take into account thousands of years of Greek history that explain very effectively the reason some of their mythology is the way it is. It’s pagan, yes, and wrong to its very core, but that doesn’t necessarily make it all demonic. Actually we humans are quite capable of sending ourselves to Hell without his help.
That isn’t to say that it wasn’t demonically influenced or wrong, but I think you’d be able to make a much stronger case if you just dropped that argument entirely. You obviously haven’t researched and aren’t familiar with enough of Greco-Roman history and culture to understand where most of the Greek deities came from – or for that matter where Lewis was coming from when he used them.
True, we can send ourselves off to Hell. However, wouldn’t you say that demons are present at idol worship?
Me? Definitely.
No, the other guy… forgot his name. The Orthodox guy.
Maybe, insomuch as idol worship is a sin and demons direct sin.
Though there may be cases of more direct demon involvement as well.
Mine or DunveganHighlander’s?
DH’s.
OK that is a huge post…..It took me like 35 seconds to scroll down it
Yah think?
I’ll wager my wig it’s the most lengthy and detailed post in JN history. Only rivaled by my other post on ”The Group for people who enjoy randomly joining groups.”Aye it do seem to be that way.
This thread is ginormous…
Like… uberly long…
Like uberly long enough that I just posted these 3 times to hide the longer threads above.
(forgive me Nathan)Hey, man. No problem-it’s really becoming a nuisance, isn’t it?
We’ll have to start a new string, and scuttle this one.Or better yet… throw one of these noble souls a gauntlet and challenge them to a blog debate. We’re ready.
Indeed. Grace just declined. You know….watch this…
I will also assist in obfuscating the frighteningly long comments above…
Wait, didn’t I just insure that this gigantic (though interesting) post would remain on the front page that much longer?
::Sigh:: I can’t win for losing…
Oh good grief. LOL =P
Aye, Bronte, lass: this is me-a fight that wears on, and on, and wearyingly on…
It’s been three years now. Get used to it…..
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Grace Einkauf posted an update in the group Ladies and Gentlemen : 12 hours, 24 minutes ago · View
So… as a girl… it seems kind of backwards for :me: to post this… but I found it very encouraging and challenging simultaneously; and perhaps some of you will too. ”7 things I’ve always wanted to say about girls” http://ericnovak.com/?p=595
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Rebekah Rodgers posted an update: 21 hours, 16 minutes ago · updated 12 hours, 52 minutes ago · View
SEVEN!!
EIGHT!
Obviously, I have no idea what you’re talking about. NO!!! DON’T SAY EIGHT!!! Six is fine… just not EIGHT!
LOL! I always go up. And I don’t like six.
And I am even more befuddled than before.
THREE!!!
Much better. Thank you Aaron.
lol@dunveganhighlander Less is more.
Yup. Uh…. why three? Why less? Are we talking about age here? I know that women don’t like to grow old, but this is getting extreme…
COUNTING DOWN TO SOMETHING!!!
ONE AND A HALF!
That will be awesome.
I see. Old age?
NO!!! Lol. Counting down to something exciting that will happen in seven days!
You’re growing old in seven days, and that’s exciting??
Okay, I’ll stop being a pest.
LOL!
Haha!
Okay, I’ll beat y’all and say zero What’s in 7 days?
I’m going somewhere.
Oh okay! Well that’s exciting! I like going somewhere
Hehe.
Are you allowed to say where?We’re going somewhere too, but its in about 9 days…
I am allowed to……..but methinks I shall keep it a secret.
Oh, so that’s how you’re going to be? Haha!
Oh… do tell us all. Publicly.
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Rebekah Rodgers posted an update in the group Prayer: 4 days, 8 hours ago · updated 13 hours, 4 minutes ago · View
Update on Peter Helms
”It looks like the goal for bringing Pete home is Monday! He has continued to do well with his breathing. The doctors are wanting to wean Peter off the trach before sending him home. They are going to be giving him a series of ”challenges” tomorrow to see if he is ready for that. It would really be good if Pete is able to come off of the trach so soon and to close off another opening for infection.
Peter’s staph infection is also gone. We are praying that Pete will be able to leave the hospital as soon as possible to prevent further infections from occurring.
Here are the newest things to pray for:
1) That the breathing challenges Pete will undergo tomorrow would go smoothly. Specifically the swallowing challenge.
2) That Peter would be protected from any further infections so that we can bring him home to a more controlled environment.
3) That the plans for Peter’s care at home would go well as would all other preparations on the home-front.
4) That the family would have the stamina and strength we need to do all of Peter’s care at home.
5) For Peter’s continued healing and for his brain to establish renewed connections with his body.
Thank you.
For the family,
Hope”This is WONDERFUL news!!!! Is he conscious?
Not conscious that I am aware of. Keep praying though.
Will do.
Praise God, that’s good news! Still praying~
WOOOOOOOT That is indeed an amazing thing. we will continue to pray!
In Christ,
AlexHey Monday’s here. What’s the word?!
Haven’t heard anything yet. I post the updates as I get them.
Somebody on Facebook posts them and I copy them here.
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AlexB. posted an update in the group Computer Help: 13 hours, 16 minutes ago · View
Hi all,
There are a lot more people on Jibe-now than there were when I made this group, so I thought I would re-introduce it.
So for all your computer questions and needs I present the ”Computer Help” group, enjoy! -
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Dunvegan Highlander posted an update in the group The Scottish Rising: 2 months ago · updated 15 hours, 28 minutes ago · View
Mackenzie Prayer
Bless a’ the Mackenzies an’ a’ the Mackenzie childer; their sons an’ son’s childer and their dochters for a thousan’ years to come.
Be Ye gracious an’ send doon mountains o’ snuff, an rivers of whiskey.
An’ oh lord send doon swords an’ pistels an’ daggers as monie as the sands on the seashore to kill the MacDonalds, the Clan Ranalds, and the Campbells.
An oh Lord, bless the wee coo, an’ make it a big coo.
An oh Lord bless the sucklin’ and make it a grand boar.
An oh Lord, bless the wee bairns, yon Angus, Alex an’ Bessie an’ Maggie an’ Florrie.
An oh Lord, build up a great wall between us an’ the Irish, an’ put broken bottles on the top, so they cannae come over.
An’ oh lord, if ye hae anything gude to gie, dunna gie it to the Irish, but gie it to your chosen people, the Scots, especially to the Clan Mackenzie an’ a’ their friends.
Glorious ye are for ever more.HAHA!!!!
That’s a good one!
HAHAHA! I could just see some Scotsman praying that.
No kidding!!!
Run, Alex M., Run!
A Macdonald never runs!
LOL! That’s a true blooded Scotsman, there.
The MacKenzies were MacLeod of Harris’ allies, though. And thus must all die!
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I’ll fight ye fer the honour ’o me clan!
**fights back**
What have we, claymores?
*virtual claymore in hand* Clan Macdonald!!!
*Virtual claymore in hand* HOLD FAST, CLAN MACLEOD!!!
I just realized, that this is why we always lose to the English!!!! We’re so busy fighting amongst ourselves! Shall we come to peace again?
Ok, peace between the Macdonalds and McLeods! We’ll just hang the McKenzies!
- If we can find any. LOL! I don’t think there are any here.
oh, ok. Then global peace and happiness can return
*Pulls out two Irish Fighting Knives* You Scotsmen can keep your slow clumsy swords. If fighting were a dance it should be fast like a jig, slow dirges are for after the battle.
LOL! Aye, but we still have our dirks!!! (And modern Sgian duhbs)
I’m both sides of this ugh…. mutiltple clans…..
I would ”like” this but… I am to closely allied with Clan MacDonald.
Ally of MacDonald, eh? Would ye like to join the Scottish Rising?
Which reminds me…why are Alex and I fighting? This is why we always lose to the English!!!! We’re so busy fighting amongst ourselves!*Scratches his head* This could cause problems. I am Irish, Danish,… and … English. I am doomed to an eternal internal struggle between the three.
I have good news though… The Irish side is stronger. Hehehe
It doesnae matter. If ye’re allied with MacDonald, then ye’re allied with Scotland!
I happen to be just as Irish as Scot.
Claymore be bad for your health, even the virtual kind.Sure, if it hits ye in a lethal spot.
Well, ye findin’ it had to cross our wall?
Hey Dunvegan, I have a whole book of Highland Poetry you’d like, I’ll bring it……ummm….. well next time we’re supposed meet!
Sure!
Possibly next dance meeting, whenever that is. If not…we could try the ball…but wow, that’s a long ways off.
Wow…
Wow…
Isn’t it hilarious?
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Flossie Pickwick became a registered member 5 days, 19 hours ago · updated 16 hours, 44 minutes ago · View
Hi Flossie, welcome to JibeNow! Quite an avatar you have there.
Oh…okay. Sorry, Flossie.
LOL! So Paul, anyway, international member #2!Sweet! What continent are you on @superninjagenius24691?
Thanks for the welcome! When not on my home planet, I reside in sunny (hem hem) Northern Ireland!
No way! That’s awesome! How in the world did you hear about JN?
Through a very good e-friend! Who else but Rae!
Your home planet!!! LOL!!!
We’ve got a live one, Paul. Like the rest of us. LOL!
You’ve come to the right place, ma ami!Psst. I should have warned you shouldn’t I? JUST KIDDING@
Love you Flossie! Hehe LOL!!!
So, Nathan, when are you going to get that Cat group up and running?
Uh…checks ”to-do”
Uh…
Uh…
You think you might be able to set one up? I’ll get around to it eventually, but for now, it may be a tad. Oh I’m sorry! But I totally understand.
Yeah, I sure can. Not this morning – to much to do in the home life. Sure its Labor day – but thats just a day to get things done right?
But I’ll try to get to it. And if neither of us do, well we’ll be okay then Hey, no-it wasn’t a problem.
Of course. And we have a whole lifetime ahead. Ah yeah…a whole lifetime…depending on when God calls us home
Hehe
Cool new avatar…”A change is as good as a rest”.
Thanks
Its the most recent I’ve got.hehe. It was taken up at the Island
Aint that true Hehe!
Hey, Flossie! Welcome! I been hearin’ a wee bit aboot ye.
I must agree with Paul…LOL!Hearing about me? That could be dangerous…! Are you Scottish, btw?
Hehe. Same here.
By blood, lass. Not birth. I hope to go someday, though.Oh cool! Same as me! I’m an Ulster-Scot, by birth and blood!
That is WAY COOL! Then you ought to join the Scottish Group. One of a kind, ye are, bein’ born in Scotland herself!
http://jibenow.com/groups/the-scottish-rising/home/Ah, you are evidently unaware of what an Ulster-Scot is! I hail from the ancient clans of the highlands, but for the past few hundred years my ancestors have graced Ulster with their presence!
No, I meant on JibeNow. LOL! No, no. LOL!!! I didn’t think you were the ONLY Ulster-Scot!!!
I’m either a Campbell or a MacLeod. The former being more likely than the latter. That’s the problem with living in America… :sigh:I’m not entirely sure you’re understanding me! I was trying to explain I wasn’t born in Scotland! Born and reared in Ulster, so I was!
Okay. You got me there. Yes. I do not know what you are talking about. Ulster, not Uist.
Okay. I just looked at it-
BANG! My knowledge of Scotts-Irish history extends to MacLeod (McClure) and a bit of general history. Excuse me for a moment while I have a mental fit.
LOL! I stole that. And NOW I know what you’re talking about. My apologies.Hehe, my Scottish history isn’t worth a chip with garlic sauce! I only know the history of my family clan. You probably know more about Scotland than me, being interested in it, as you are!
Haha! What a comparison. A good one, though.
I need to polish up on my Scotts-Irish, though. They’re legitimate Scots.Hehe, so long as you remember I’m NOT ’Scotts-Irish’ I’m an Ulster-Scot.
I’m NOT Irish! And I could give you a fifty page run-down on the difference…which you don’t want to hear! So just take my word for it! Actually, I would love a fifty-page run-down.
Aye…
”Build a wall between us and the Irish, and put broken bottles on top so they cannae come o’er.” -MacKenzie’s Prayer.
Nae, I willnae forget. We Scots are VERY different from the Irish.Yeah Flossie, you should give a 50-page run down of it
I’d be plently interested as well…you don’t tell me a lot of your past history, so fess up! Just kididng!! HAHA!
FLOSSIE!!! EEE!
Hehe I know I have already said this, but I really do love that picture of you!! Hehe! Great Craic huh?
I am sooo glad you’re on here!!
Ludge you deary!!!
~Rae~Rae!!
Yeah, I know. It really portrays my inner self…:)
Ludge ya like fudge! xxx (:Hehe!
Well, I’m afraid I don’t have a pic of mineself, that would portray my inner self correctly…Haha! It would be a weird, interesting picture
Love it!
Ludge ya like fudge too! Hehe!Hehe…VERY interesting picture t’would be indeed!
Yes…lets not find one
Haha!
Aw! I saw that you and Nathan were on at the same time earlier! And I only missed you both by less then an hour! Bummer
We had to run Dallas in town to drop her off at a hair salon type place – she’s getting a sort of pirm. I’d never be able to do that! I would turn out looking like a poodle because my hairs so think ’Tis okay though
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Madelaine Clay posted an update in the group Tongue Twister Tester: 1 day, 13 hours ago · updated 17 hours, 6 minutes ago · View
7/5/10:
Six sick bricks tick
Six sick bricks tock
Six sick chicks tick
Six sick chicks tockSKKSLKUELLKY….what?
::Shudder:: This one totally killed me…
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